Comments on: What else they might be http://artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html a multi-disciplinary dialog Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:06:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Steve http://artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2834 Steve Wed, 20 Dec 2006 23:23:42 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2834 Arthur, Yes, I think photography has a real advantage here. I think I rather missed the mark on this post; I tried to bring in too many things at once and didn't have enough time to do what I want with the images. But at least doing it helped give me a better idea of where I want to take this series of exercises. In the digital darkroom I can adjust tones and/or cropping to either keep the images quite realistic or make them quite abstract, so that it would become hard to recognize the original material. I'm interested in what real compositions lead to the most appealing abstract ones. I'm also interested in whether operating near the realistic/abstract boundary, on one side or the other, has any particular appeal. I often enjoy art where I have to work a little but can figure things out satisfactorily. We'll see whether I learn anything from the attempt... Arthur,
Yes, I think photography has a real advantage here. I think I rather missed the mark on this post; I tried to bring in too many things at once and didn’t have enough time to do what I want with the images. But at least doing it helped give me a better idea of where I want to take this series of exercises. In the digital darkroom I can adjust tones and/or cropping to either keep the images quite realistic or make them quite abstract, so that it would become hard to recognize the original material. I’m interested in what real compositions lead to the most appealing abstract ones. I’m also interested in whether operating near the realistic/abstract boundary, on one side or the other, has any particular appeal. I often enjoy art where I have to work a little but can figure things out satisfactorily. We’ll see whether I learn anything from the attempt…

]]> By: Arthur Whitman http://artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2831 Arthur Whitman Wed, 20 Dec 2006 23:07:05 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2831 Why do I keep missing the most interesting "dialogs" going on here? Like Dan Mitchell, I like abstract images that also seem concrete, real. Although it is possible to do this in painting--Clyfford Still is a great example and one of my own favorites--it seems that photography might be at an advantage here. I'll admit that I'm not usually a huge fan of photography (which is why I'm reluctant to write about it). I'm not particularly sure why this is, but I think the pervasive tendency towards the literal may be one reason--rivers that look like rivers, people that look like people, etcetera. I find this approach more compelling in painting, where realism seems to be less dogmatically real (if that makes any sense). Anyway, a compelling image--interesting figure/ground shifts and ambiguity of scale (cookies or continents). Why do I keep missing the most interesting “dialogs” going on here?

Like Dan Mitchell, I like abstract images that also seem concrete, real. Although it is possible to do this in painting–Clyfford Still is a great example and one of my own favorites–it seems that photography might be at an advantage here.

I’ll admit that I’m not usually a huge fan of photography (which is why I’m reluctant to write about it). I’m not particularly sure why this is, but I think the pervasive tendency towards the literal may be one reason–rivers that look like rivers, people that look like people, etcetera. I find this approach more compelling in painting, where realism seems to be less dogmatically real (if that makes any sense).

Anyway, a compelling image–interesting figure/ground shifts and ambiguity of scale (cookies or continents).

]]> By: Steve http://artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2796 Steve Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:13:14 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2796 June, Interesting about the music, I hadn't heard about that. Adaptation is a basic principle of brain operation with a lot of interesting subtleties. But I think the change in audience response to Rite of Spring had more to do with expectations based on all kinds of social/cultural information. Expectations play a huge role in response to art, a topic we've touched on more in passing than directly, as far as I know. It would be nice to have a good post to collect ideas, and of course there's a lot that's relevant to market-minded folks. Any takers? It won't be me... June,
Interesting about the music, I hadn’t heard about that. Adaptation is a basic principle of brain operation with a lot of interesting subtleties. But I think the change in audience response to Rite of Spring had more to do with expectations based on all kinds of social/cultural information. Expectations play a huge role in response to art, a topic we’ve touched on more in passing than directly, as far as I know. It would be nice to have a good post to collect ideas, and of course there’s a lot that’s relevant to market-minded folks. Any takers? It won’t be me…

]]> By: June http://artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2769 June Wed, 20 Dec 2006 05:03:10 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2769 I lied. I have to respond. Neuroscientists (you all perhaps know this already) have found that music that is new to its listeners, something like the Rite of Spring, shows up in brain patterns as disruptive bits, without the normal rhythmic patterning that familiar music causes brain scans to show. But the brain adapts, so that one year after the audience rioted over the Rite of Spring,it was presented to standing ovations. The brains of a mass audience stopped popping around erratically and settled into a soothing rhythm -- the rhythm not of the music itself, but of understanding. Which, I would suggest, has at least metaphoric resonance for Karl's last comment. Here's the url for Rite of Spring. I seem to have lost the instructions about embedding them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rite_of_Spring I lied. I have to respond.

Neuroscientists (you all perhaps know this already) have found that music that is new to its listeners, something like the Rite of Spring, shows up in brain patterns as disruptive bits, without the normal rhythmic patterning that familiar music causes brain scans to show. But the brain adapts, so that one year after the audience rioted over the Rite of Spring,it was presented to standing ovations. The brains of a mass audience stopped popping around erratically and settled into a soothing rhythm — the rhythm not of the music itself, but of understanding.

Which, I would suggest, has at least metaphoric resonance for Karl’s last comment.

Here’s the url for Rite of Spring. I seem to have lost the instructions about embedding them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rite_of_Spring

]]> By: Karl Zipser http://artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2759 Karl Zipser Tue, 19 Dec 2006 23:37:31 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2759 Steve, Earlier I wrote: "I don't see the figure/ground ambiguity you speak of. That is, I don't see it unless I try to see it." I've been looking at this image all evening here in Haarlem. It is difficult for me to see the normal figure/ground relations now. Visual adaptation is a fascinating topic. Steve,

Earlier I wrote: “I don’t see the figure/ground ambiguity you speak of. That is, I don’t see it unless I try to see it.”

I’ve been looking at this image all evening here in Haarlem. It is difficult for me to see the normal figure/ground relations now. Visual adaptation is a fascinating topic.

]]> By: Leslie http://artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2755 Leslie Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:47:04 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2755 Oh, my previous comments from earlier today came back - how bizarre! Hopefully I didn't repeat myself too much. Yes, your photos of the ghost town buildings have that same feel of shapes being ripped into other shapes. Thanks for the Motherwell images - never saw those particular ones. Oh, my previous comments from earlier today came back - how bizarre! Hopefully I didn’t repeat myself too much. Yes, your photos of the ghost town buildings have that same feel of shapes being ripped into other shapes. Thanks for the Motherwell images - never saw those particular ones.

]]> By: Karl Zipser http://artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2754 Karl Zipser Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:43:13 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/what-else-they-might-be.html#comment-2754 Leslie and David, Some comments of yours got caught by the automatic spam filter. I "un-spammed" them a moment ago. The comments are, I think, #'s 5,7 and 9. I'm not quite sure why they got caught, but I think the filter is adaptive and should learn not to hold on to your comments in the future. The filter catches a lot of real spam which, if it got through, would ruin the flow of discussion. I'm sorry for not catching the problem with your comments earlier. If your comment seems to disappear, email Rex or me right away to ask us to check if it got held as potential spam. Leslie and David,

Some comments of yours got caught by the automatic spam filter. I “un-spammed” them a moment ago. The comments are, I think, #’s 5,7 and 9.

I’m not quite sure why they got caught, but I think the filter is adaptive and should learn not to hold on to your comments in the future.

The filter catches a lot of real spam which, if it got through, would ruin the flow of discussion. I’m sorry for not catching the problem with your comments earlier. If your comment seems to disappear, email Rex or me right away to ask us to check if it got held as potential spam.

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