Comments on: Artists and Non-critical Thought http://artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html a multi-disciplinary dialog Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:43:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Jay Hoffman http://artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-14805 Jay Hoffman Thu, 03 May 2007 16:05:59 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-14805 I used to run a nonprofit donated goods brokerage and used a lot of miscreants doing community service. A number of these guys had been tagged tagging. The crime and punishment thing for them came across as a form of validation and one guy, especially, was full of himself in describing the artistic virtues of his work. He didn't have any photos in his wallet so I had to take his word. Tagging would seem to be a flip side, of sorts, to something I used to see down at the museum. One of my educational responsibilities was conducting art classes for inner city kids. Sometimes I would have them do self portraits and found that too many would draw a small face and figure in the corner of a much larger piece of paper. They, many of them, were unable to enlarge that figure upon request. That was their self image - insignificant. Taggers can go to the other extreme and announce themselves to the limits of their paint and reach and I wonder if we aren't looking at the flip sides of a common currency. And do remember that a legion of taggers would have been glad to white out that $500,000 extravaganza so as to get their respective cracks at the wall. I used to run a nonprofit donated goods brokerage and used a lot of miscreants doing community service. A number of these guys had been tagged tagging. The crime and punishment thing for them came across as a form of validation and one guy, especially, was full of himself in describing the artistic virtues of his work. He didn’t have any photos in his wallet so I had to take his word.

Tagging would seem to be a flip side, of sorts, to something I used to see down at the museum. One of my educational responsibilities was conducting art classes for inner city kids. Sometimes I would have them do self portraits and found that too many would draw a small face and figure in the corner of a much larger piece of paper.
They, many of them, were unable to enlarge that figure upon request. That was their self image - insignificant. Taggers can go to the other extreme and announce themselves to the limits of their paint and reach and I wonder if we aren’t looking at the flip sides of a common currency.

And do remember that a legion of taggers would have been glad to white out that $500,000 extravaganza so as to get their respective cracks at the wall.

]]> By: Steve Durbin http://artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-14684 Steve Durbin Thu, 03 May 2007 00:01:05 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-14684 Personally, I've almost always enjoyed the graffiti I've seen. I admit I'd probably feel differently if I owned the tagged property, though not if it was abandoned and the graffiti not offensive. I saw the results of an interesting experiment in Dillon, Montana, where a bunch of graffiti artists were invited to decorate the sides of a largely abandoned warehouse. I thought it looked great, but apparently some locals disagreed and spontaneously covered part of it over with ugly paint swaths. While checking on this via Google, I came across the following suggestion in a <a href="http://www.otherthings.com/grafarc/blog/archives/2005/08/graffiti_panel_3.html" rel="nofollow">blog entry</a> on a panel at the Commonwealth Club of San Francisco: <blockquote>One of the most constructive new ideas came from an audience member, who suggested taking the money currently wasted on repeatedly buffing the same concrete walls (currently about $22 million per year for San Francisco alone!) and allocating it to a public art fund, with one condition: any graffiti-abatement costs incurred during the year would be taken out of the public art fund. The idea is that this would serve as a better deterrent against illegal graf, since writers engaging in it would be taking money out of their own pockets. I'm not sure it would work, but it's an interesting idea!</blockquote> Personally, I’ve almost always enjoyed the graffiti I’ve seen. I admit I’d probably feel differently if I owned the tagged property, though not if it was abandoned and the graffiti not offensive. I saw the results of an interesting experiment in Dillon, Montana, where a bunch of graffiti artists were invited to decorate the sides of a largely abandoned warehouse. I thought it looked great, but apparently some locals disagreed and spontaneously covered part of it over with ugly paint swaths. While checking on this via Google, I came across the following suggestion in a blog entry on a panel at the Commonwealth Club of San Francisco:

One of the most constructive new ideas came from an audience member, who suggested taking the money currently wasted on repeatedly buffing the same concrete walls (currently about $22 million per year for San Francisco alone!) and allocating it to a public art fund, with one condition: any graffiti-abatement costs incurred during the year would be taken out of the public art fund. The idea is that this would serve as a better deterrent against illegal graf, since writers engaging in it would be taking money out of their own pockets. I’m not sure it would work, but it’s an interesting idea!

]]> By: Sunil Gangadharan http://artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13780 Sunil Gangadharan Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:40:25 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13780 From http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4035793a14297.html "LONDON: Transport workers in London have painted over a mural by world-renowned graffiti artist Banksy, erasing a piece of art estimated to be worth $500,000. The mural, depicting a scene from the Quentin Tarantino movie Pulp Fiction in which Samuel L Jackson and John Travolta are holding bananas instead of guns, was spray-painted on the side of an electricity substation around five years ago. It became one of the most famous graffiti paintings by Banksy, a reclusive artist whose work has attracted star-studded buyers including Angelina Jolie and Jude Law. " How come when the perpetrator of graffiti gets fame around the world, the same costs $500K? From http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4035793a14297.html

“LONDON: Transport workers in London have painted over a mural by world-renowned graffiti artist Banksy, erasing a piece of art estimated to be worth $500,000.
The mural, depicting a scene from the Quentin Tarantino movie Pulp Fiction in which Samuel L Jackson and John Travolta are holding bananas instead of guns, was spray-painted on the side of an electricity substation around five years ago. It became one of the most famous graffiti paintings by Banksy, a reclusive artist whose work has attracted star-studded buyers including Angelina Jolie and Jude Law. ”

How come when the perpetrator of graffiti gets fame around the world, the same costs $500K?

]]> By: Rex http://artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13754 Rex Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:01:43 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13754 I don't think we don't have to worry about authorities harnessing graffiti, so we don't have to worry about the essence being lost. The people who do spot the good artists and hire them are counter culture figures themselves who appreciate the value of good agitprop. Real life example: A buddy of mine who goes by "Inners" started out as a tagger, but his tags were really stylish. He started doing wild scenes of skateboarders doing impossible stunts or pictures of authorities engaged in illegal acts, like GW snorting coke. One day he got hired to do the interior of a skateboard shop. He had free reign. He had all his tagger buddies help on the job. That's how these things go. You can bet that the guy who hired Inners does not have to worry about his place being tagged. That's a clue about how to handle taggers. <i>Verbum sapientis sat</i> I don’t think we don’t have to worry about authorities harnessing graffiti, so we don’t have to worry about the essence being lost. The people who do spot the good artists and hire them are counter culture figures themselves who appreciate the value of good agitprop.

Real life example: A buddy of mine who goes by “Inners” started out as a tagger, but his tags were really stylish. He started doing wild scenes of skateboarders doing impossible stunts or pictures of authorities engaged in illegal acts, like GW snorting coke. One day he got hired to do the interior of a skateboard shop. He had free reign. He had all his tagger buddies help on the job. That’s how these things go.

You can bet that the guy who hired Inners does not have to worry about his place being tagged.

That’s a clue about how to handle taggers. Verbum sapientis sat

]]> By: ginger http://artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13741 ginger Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:04:38 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13741 tagging is a big problem here in New Mexico with gangs..the graffitti is different and incredible. Much of it has been done..building offered and the graffitti done and the art work is so vibrant, rich and full of culture. tagging is a big problem here in New Mexico with gangs..the graffitti is different and incredible. Much of it has been done..building offered and the graffitti done and the art work is so vibrant, rich and full of culture.

]]> By: Arthur Whitman http://artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13738 Arthur Whitman Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:20:15 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13738 Which is why we need the mixture. Which is why we need the mixture.

]]> By: birgit http://artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13736 birgit Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:16:37 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2007/04/artists-and-non-critical-thought.html#comment-13736 A worse experience was riding in a NYC subway car whose entire inside surface was plastered with Chevas Regal ads. Perhaps, it is the homogeneity of liquor ads or tagging that is oppressive. A worse experience was riding in a NYC subway car whose entire inside surface was plastered with Chevas Regal ads.

Perhaps, it is the homogeneity of liquor ads or tagging that is oppressive.

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