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	<title>Comments on: Pander Pander, Art Slander</title>
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	<description>a multi-disciplinary dialog</description>
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		<title>By: Tree</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html/comment-page-1#comment-24734</link>
		<dc:creator>Tree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 17:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html#comment-24734</guid>
		<description>Sunil, what you&#039;ve posted here, in particular the information on the DIA, is a big reason why I have not pursued any more degrees in the art history/museum studies area because I can&#039;t tolerate the dumbing down of museums&#039; collections or the constant ploys to make money so that a gift shop is more important than the art exhibit; Or worse, exhibits like gowns worn by Princess Diana or an automobile in the main lobby are put out to the public as fine art when they are really ways to pull in crowds and make money.  (Just two examples from local museums)

I tend to ignore wall text in museums, mainly because I don&#039;t want to die of a stroke.  I see so many mistakes it drives me crazy, not to mention the patronizing tone so many have without ever passing along pertinent information.  I believe wall text can be informative and interesting without alienating anyone.
Museums are increasingly geared towards children and the people that teach these children are ruining so much of what&#039;s important about art and the teaching of it by behaving as if all children are so stupid they could never understand even the most basic formalistic ideas.  Unfortunately, this &quot;child proofing&quot; of art extends to adults, too.  

OK, I could write a book on all of this and I&#039;m having trouble streamlining my thoughts  because it&#039;s important to me.  
I guess the bottom line is, yes art should be for everyone but that implies that people have to meet art halfway at least and not expect it all to be handed to them in a safe, bland manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sunil, what you&#8217;ve posted here, in particular the information on the DIA, is a big reason why I have not pursued any more degrees in the art history/museum studies area because I can&#8217;t tolerate the dumbing down of museums&#8217; collections or the constant ploys to make money so that a gift shop is more important than the art exhibit; Or worse, exhibits like gowns worn by Princess Diana or an automobile in the main lobby are put out to the public as fine art when they are really ways to pull in crowds and make money.  (Just two examples from local museums)</p>
<p>I tend to ignore wall text in museums, mainly because I don&#8217;t want to die of a stroke.  I see so many mistakes it drives me crazy, not to mention the patronizing tone so many have without ever passing along pertinent information.  I believe wall text can be informative and interesting without alienating anyone.<br />
Museums are increasingly geared towards children and the people that teach these children are ruining so much of what&#8217;s important about art and the teaching of it by behaving as if all children are so stupid they could never understand even the most basic formalistic ideas.  Unfortunately, this &#8220;child proofing&#8221; of art extends to adults, too.  </p>
<p>OK, I could write a book on all of this and I&#8217;m having trouble streamlining my thoughts  because it&#8217;s important to me.<br />
I guess the bottom line is, yes art should be for everyone but that implies that people have to meet art halfway at least and not expect it all to be handed to them in a safe, bland manner.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html/comment-page-1#comment-24629</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 02:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html#comment-24629</guid>
		<description>Sunil:

I must take some exception. I might not be a bona fide expert if I were to absorb and regurgitate all the information on wall labels, but I would be a prodigy of memorization and would know more than most of the people working at the museum. 

I don&#039;t tend to think that the work/label axis is so terribly important. Viewers head for the text when they see something that attracts them. It matters that the information they receive is factual, leads them to further sources and is relatively free of adjectives. And it should never come across as the last word.

to me the key has always been the effect of aching feet. I remember walking by an entire gallery of Rembrandts at the Met because my feet were killing me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sunil:</p>
<p>I must take some exception. I might not be a bona fide expert if I were to absorb and regurgitate all the information on wall labels, but I would be a prodigy of memorization and would know more than most of the people working at the museum. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t tend to think that the work/label axis is so terribly important. Viewers head for the text when they see something that attracts them. It matters that the information they receive is factual, leads them to further sources and is relatively free of adjectives. And it should never come across as the last word.</p>
<p>to me the key has always been the effect of aching feet. I remember walking by an entire gallery of Rembrandts at the Met because my feet were killing me.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunil Gangadharan</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html/comment-page-1#comment-24572</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunil Gangadharan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html#comment-24572</guid>
		<description>Judging from the responses here it almost looks like the jury is still out on the use of stultifying devices that simplify the museum going process. Personally I am the kind that would prefer to go to a museum, enjoy a little bit of quiet and soak the artworks and then go back home and explore the art and the meaning behind the same to imbibe it a little better. Of course this is time consuming and not many people have the time (I do not have it myself, but my fascination gets the better of me at times). On the other hand people like June and David eloquently point out the use of devices like the audio and projected phrases that make it easier for on-the-run folks who use the museum to quickly gain their cultural cup of tea and then be off with the knowledge imbibed. I tend to see it more like enjoying a cup of coffee from one of the roadside vendors in NY (a little bit of flavor, but it serves the purpose) and enjoying a cup of coffee at Barnes and Noble with a couple of books by your side and a companion who talks when needed. Different takes for different people. 
Of course it should also be said that projected phrases and natural history museum type callouts that describe paintings tends to produce a certain set of people who become ‘instant experts’ thinking that all there is to know is known by just reading the callouts under the painting. That said, I cannot think of any alternatives that will help quench the thirst of the general public who need their quick culture shots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judging from the responses here it almost looks like the jury is still out on the use of stultifying devices that simplify the museum going process. Personally I am the kind that would prefer to go to a museum, enjoy a little bit of quiet and soak the artworks and then go back home and explore the art and the meaning behind the same to imbibe it a little better. Of course this is time consuming and not many people have the time (I do not have it myself, but my fascination gets the better of me at times). On the other hand people like June and David eloquently point out the use of devices like the audio and projected phrases that make it easier for on-the-run folks who use the museum to quickly gain their cultural cup of tea and then be off with the knowledge imbibed. I tend to see it more like enjoying a cup of coffee from one of the roadside vendors in NY (a little bit of flavor, but it serves the purpose) and enjoying a cup of coffee at Barnes and Noble with a couple of books by your side and a companion who talks when needed. Different takes for different people.<br />
Of course it should also be said that projected phrases and natural history museum type callouts that describe paintings tends to produce a certain set of people who become ‘instant experts’ thinking that all there is to know is known by just reading the callouts under the painting. That said, I cannot think of any alternatives that will help quench the thirst of the general public who need their quick culture shots.</p>
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		<title>By: June Underwood</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html/comment-page-1#comment-24567</link>
		<dc:creator>June Underwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html#comment-24567</guid>
		<description>Arthur, David, Sunil,

I agree that modesty and skepticism about public (or private) institutions are always useful. And certainly text can get in the way of the art. But I&#039;m resistant to blanket condemnations. 

If museums are to cater to a wide variety of people,and clearly they should be, and to people educated in a wide variety of ways, and to people with a wide range of experiences, they (museums) will necessarily have to use a wide variety of different tools. What works for one person, who may need to resist reading the labels, won&#039;t work for another, who really wants to know the precise date that this Cezanne was painted.

And I think we need to sort through which tools might result in dummying down and which are wonderful additions. Once the audio materials got standardized and working reliably, I was very grateful for them. I could listen or not, I could look without having to peer at labels (which are always too small for my poor eyesight), and while I often don&#039;t use the audio materials, I can see that others do and that the materials really work for them. They actually slow down the viewers, who look for what is being discussed in the audio. This can&#039;t be bad (and if it&#039;s annoying, the audio can be resisted). I think a wireless pointing system could be even better if it could be made to work.

Projected phrases above the art make more sense then tiny labels or painted information. Why not project them -- cheaper than printing, I should think. And again, the labels can be ignored.

So I think before I&#039;m willing to accept a blanket condemnation such as was presented here, I need more specifics about what is being done and said. I don&#039;t see the use of audio equipment a dummying device, unless the recorded information somehow diminishes the art. I don&#039;t see why the Tate&#039;s activities are bad, although I&#039;m a bit old to be interested in them. And the computer-generated art may be simplistic, but so is much paint-generated art. Bad art abounds. As does good art and museum folks who are desperately trying to entice and educate as well as present.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arthur, David, Sunil,</p>
<p>I agree that modesty and skepticism about public (or private) institutions are always useful. And certainly text can get in the way of the art. But I&#8217;m resistant to blanket condemnations. </p>
<p>If museums are to cater to a wide variety of people,and clearly they should be, and to people educated in a wide variety of ways, and to people with a wide range of experiences, they (museums) will necessarily have to use a wide variety of different tools. What works for one person, who may need to resist reading the labels, won&#8217;t work for another, who really wants to know the precise date that this Cezanne was painted.</p>
<p>And I think we need to sort through which tools might result in dummying down and which are wonderful additions. Once the audio materials got standardized and working reliably, I was very grateful for them. I could listen or not, I could look without having to peer at labels (which are always too small for my poor eyesight), and while I often don&#8217;t use the audio materials, I can see that others do and that the materials really work for them. They actually slow down the viewers, who look for what is being discussed in the audio. This can&#8217;t be bad (and if it&#8217;s annoying, the audio can be resisted). I think a wireless pointing system could be even better if it could be made to work.</p>
<p>Projected phrases above the art make more sense then tiny labels or painted information. Why not project them &#8212; cheaper than printing, I should think. And again, the labels can be ignored.</p>
<p>So I think before I&#8217;m willing to accept a blanket condemnation such as was presented here, I need more specifics about what is being done and said. I don&#8217;t see the use of audio equipment a dummying device, unless the recorded information somehow diminishes the art. I don&#8217;t see why the Tate&#8217;s activities are bad, although I&#8217;m a bit old to be interested in them. And the computer-generated art may be simplistic, but so is much paint-generated art. Bad art abounds. As does good art and museum folks who are desperately trying to entice and educate as well as present.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html/comment-page-1#comment-24559</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html#comment-24559</guid>
		<description>If wall text and audio guides provide an entry point for people to begin looking at and thinking about art, then that&#039;s great. The problem, I believe, is that they also encourage people to look at the artwork as simply illustrations for the text.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If wall text and audio guides provide an entry point for people to begin looking at and thinking about art, then that&#8217;s great. The problem, I believe, is that they also encourage people to look at the artwork as simply illustrations for the text.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Whitman</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html/comment-page-1#comment-24552</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Whitman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html#comment-24552</guid>
		<description>To clarify, I am by no means against wall labels, tours and other supplements. But it is important, I think, to be modest (and skeptical) about their role as educational and popularizing tools. Aside from bare facts, what you&#039;re getting is (in my experience, at least) typically a rote, simplistic point of view. Shying away from big scary words like &quot;Baroque&quot; isn&#039;t the answer. Neither are audio and video and computers--these things are bound to be more popular than the works of art they&#039;re obsensibly there to explain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify, I am by no means against wall labels, tours and other supplements. But it is important, I think, to be modest (and skeptical) about their role as educational and popularizing tools. Aside from bare facts, what you&#8217;re getting is (in my experience, at least) typically a rote, simplistic point of view. Shying away from big scary words like &#8220;Baroque&#8221; isn&#8217;t the answer. Neither are audio and video and computers&#8211;these things are bound to be more popular than the works of art they&#8217;re obsensibly there to explain.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Whitman</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html/comment-page-1#comment-24547</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Whitman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/07/pander-pander-art-slander.html#comment-24547</guid>
		<description>I have to say that I&#039;m skeptical attempts to make art museums more &quot;user-friendly&quot;. For better or for worse, museums seem inherently elitist to me. Many (perhaps most) of the objects in a typical museum were made under cultural assumptions foreign to the typical visitor (a risky stereotype, yes). This is true of classical statuary and it is true of contemporary avant-garde work. Explaining the context via simplistic, cliched wall-text isn&#039;t enough, and may provide a false sense of security. This isn&#039;t to say that &quot;civilians&quot; can&#039;t or shouldn&#039;t try to grasp museum art, just to say that the process is hard (as it is for anybody, at first).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that I&#8217;m skeptical attempts to make art museums more &#8220;user-friendly&#8221;. For better or for worse, museums seem inherently elitist to me. Many (perhaps most) of the objects in a typical museum were made under cultural assumptions foreign to the typical visitor (a risky stereotype, yes). This is true of classical statuary and it is true of contemporary avant-garde work. Explaining the context via simplistic, cliched wall-text isn&#8217;t enough, and may provide a false sense of security. This isn&#8217;t to say that &#8220;civilians&#8221; can&#8217;t or shouldn&#8217;t try to grasp museum art, just to say that the process is hard (as it is for anybody, at first).</p>
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