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	<title>Comments on: The impact of blur</title>
	<atom:link href="http://artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html</link>
	<description>a multi-disciplinary dialog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jay Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-32827</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-32827</guid>
		<description>To add to the inventory of blurs, I would like to introduce Ohashi by Hiroshige. In this print the rain - a familiar subject in a wet land - consists of streaks running from top to bottom in a gentle diagonal. Hiroshige made this image about the same time that Daguerre was mouthing his first "Aha!" I don't know of anybody in the Western tradition who treated rain likewise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To add to the inventory of blurs, I would like to introduce Ohashi by Hiroshige. In this print the rain - a familiar subject in a wet land - consists of streaks running from top to bottom in a gentle diagonal. Hiroshige made this image about the same time that Daguerre was mouthing his first &#8220;Aha!&#8221; I don&#8217;t know of anybody in the Western tradition who treated rain likewise.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Zipser</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31951</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Zipser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31951</guid>
		<description>Seriously David,

I think "now" is between a few seconds and a minute. This defines a compact psychological moment.

Related to photos and the blur question, the issue I have  with blur, as in Steve's photos, is that it prevents me from seeing things clearly that I might want to look at. In painting we can reduce the salience of a region -- background, say -- while still making it clear. With the examples that Steve provided, I find that I want to see everything, not just the in focus region. That is, if I look at the images for more than a moment, but still in the "now"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously David,</p>
<p>I think &#8220;now&#8221; is between a few seconds and a minute. This defines a compact psychological moment.</p>
<p>Related to photos and the blur question, the issue I have  with blur, as in Steve&#8217;s photos, is that it prevents me from seeing things clearly that I might want to look at. In painting we can reduce the salience of a region &#8212; background, say &#8212; while still making it clear. With the examples that Steve provided, I find that I want to see everything, not just the in focus region. That is, if I look at the images for more than a moment, but still in the &#8220;now&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31810</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31810</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;how long is “now”?&lt;/i&gt;

Depending on who you ask, it could be around &lt;a href="http://www.longnow.org/about/" rel="nofollow"&gt;10,000 years.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>how long is “now”?</i></p>
<p>Depending on who you ask, it could be around <a href="http://www.longnow.org/about/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/www.longnow.org');" rel="nofollow">10,000 years.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Karl Zipser</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31808</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Zipser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31808</guid>
		<description>Steve,

The blur issue gets to the question, how long is "now"?

Blur is something that we tend to ignore perceptually. When we want to see something clearly, we focus on it, if we can.

If we think of an image as representing, not a photographic instant of a fraction of a second, but a psychological moment, "now", long enough to make a few eye movements to take in the scene, then the lack of out of focus in painting would not be unnatural.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>The blur issue gets to the question, how long is &#8220;now&#8221;?</p>
<p>Blur is something that we tend to ignore perceptually. When we want to see something clearly, we focus on it, if we can.</p>
<p>If we think of an image as representing, not a photographic instant of a fraction of a second, but a psychological moment, &#8220;now&#8221;, long enough to make a few eye movements to take in the scene, then the lack of out of focus in painting would not be unnatural.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Durbin</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31807</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Durbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31807</guid>
		<description>Karl,

I'm sure you're right about the focus/blur distinction, at least in older painting. An early scientific model of the eye, the camera obscura, shows everything in relatively good focus.

An artist whose work I just saw, Michael Haykin, uses camera-like out-of-focus effects, very similar to some of my &lt;a rel="nofollow" href="http://stephendurbin.com/sdt.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;Sourdough Trail series&lt;/a&gt;. A good example is obtained by clicking on the lower left image in &lt;a rel="nofollow" href="http://haykin.com/Fall-2006.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;this gallery&lt;/a&gt;. Haykin works from photographs, so this effect comes "naturally" in some sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karl,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re right about the focus/blur distinction, at least in older painting. An early scientific model of the eye, the camera obscura, shows everything in relatively good focus.</p>
<p>An artist whose work I just saw, Michael Haykin, uses camera-like out-of-focus effects, very similar to some of my <a rel="nofollow" href="http://stephendurbin.com/sdt.php" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/stephendurbin.com');" rel="nofollow">Sourdough Trail series</a>. A good example is obtained by clicking on the lower left image in <a rel="nofollow" href="http://haykin.com/Fall-2006.html" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/haykin.com');" rel="nofollow">this gallery</a>. Haykin works from photographs, so this effect comes &#8220;naturally&#8221; in some sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Zipser</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31800</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Zipser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31800</guid>
		<description>Steve,

Interesting that even in your quick illustration you capture the essential Durbin reference to abstraction.

The out of focus mountains are almost like clouds -- they would be easy to overlook. The in focus mountains -- if I were painting this scene, I'd have these combined with the in focus grass/fence, but then reduce the contrast to send them back in depth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Interesting that even in your quick illustration you capture the essential Durbin reference to abstraction.</p>
<p>The out of focus mountains are almost like clouds &#8212; they would be easy to overlook. The in focus mountains &#8212; if I were painting this scene, I&#8217;d have these combined with the in focus grass/fence, but then reduce the contrast to send them back in depth.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Zipser</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31798</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Zipser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/08/the-impact-of-blur.html#comment-31798</guid>
		<description>Steve,

In painting, the concept that the view is an instantaneous one is only superficially maintained. Painting a landscape can take days, the artist looks at this part of the scene and then that. The idea that one part or another should be out of focus would be quite awkward for the painter unless he or she were intentionally adapting ideas from photography. The painter Ingres was said to use subtle blur in contours of faces, though.

In or out of focus is different from more or less developed detail, which is how I would interpret the effects that David refers to in Velasquez -- but then again, I'd like to take a better look at the paintings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>In painting, the concept that the view is an instantaneous one is only superficially maintained. Painting a landscape can take days, the artist looks at this part of the scene and then that. The idea that one part or another should be out of focus would be quite awkward for the painter unless he or she were intentionally adapting ideas from photography. The painter Ingres was said to use subtle blur in contours of faces, though.</p>
<p>In or out of focus is different from more or less developed detail, which is how I would interpret the effects that David refers to in Velasquez &#8212; but then again, I&#8217;d like to take a better look at the paintings.</p>
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