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	<title>Comments on: On Landscape</title>
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	<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html</link>
	<description>a multi-disciplinary dialog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Karl Zipser</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-38160</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Zipser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Beautiful beautiful beautiful!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beautiful beautiful beautiful!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Durbin</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-37441</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Durbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree with Clairan that the last painting looks especially "American," where the quote marks recognize that there is a cultural mythos there that the painting talks to (in June's language). It's &lt;em&gt;Early Sunday Morning&lt;/em&gt; unconfined, going way, way farther than a city street -- though it starts from fence and pavement. Though Hopper also had a landscape side, which I just saw for the first time in a &lt;a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.artandperception.com/%E2%80%9Dhttp://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/us/20truro.html%E2%80%9D" rel="nofollow"&gt;Times article&lt;/a&gt;.

Updating my first comment (#7): I had first thought of Marsden Hartley, though I don't really know my art history that well. When I looked at the Hartleys around, they seemed quite different from June's. But I just came across his &lt;em&gt;&lt;a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.psu.edu/dept/palmermuseum/images-collections/amer_mod_hartley.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;New Mexico Landscape&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt; that has more in common with her flowing lines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Clairan that the last painting looks especially &#8220;American,&#8221; where the quote marks recognize that there is a cultural mythos there that the painting talks to (in June&#8217;s language). It&#8217;s <em>Early Sunday Morning</em> unconfined, going way, way farther than a city street &#8212; though it starts from fence and pavement. Though Hopper also had a landscape side, which I just saw for the first time in a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.artandperception.com/%E2%80%9Dhttp://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/us/20truro.html%E2%80%9D"  rel="nofollow">Times article</a>.</p>
<p>Updating my first comment (#7): I had first thought of Marsden Hartley, though I don&#8217;t really know my art history that well. When I looked at the Hartleys around, they seemed quite different from June&#8217;s. But I just came across his <em><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.psu.edu/dept/palmermuseum/images-collections/amer_mod_hartley.jpg" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/www.psu.edu');" rel="nofollow">New Mexico Landscape</a></em> that has more in common with her flowing lines.</p>
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		<title>By: Clairan</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-37433</link>
		<dc:creator>Clairan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-37433</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with you (and Gary Snyder whose poetry I love) about the specifics of place.  But I also think that the myths of a culture work on us consciously and unconsciously, sometimes whether we like it or not.  So that I'd say the wide open spaces, big sky and hearts, and brave souls (skipping the Men/Men) is still an active part of many of us even if we may intellectually reject it. 

I'm sticking to my reading of your work as a  bit mythic (and this is not derogatory!).  The last painting with the crisp realistic tree by the fences, domestic, domesticated, familiar.  The glowing, more impressionistic butte? plateau? in the distance -- reachable? perhaps; desirable? definitely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with you (and Gary Snyder whose poetry I love) about the specifics of place.  But I also think that the myths of a culture work on us consciously and unconsciously, sometimes whether we like it or not.  So that I&#8217;d say the wide open spaces, big sky and hearts, and brave souls (skipping the Men/Men) is still an active part of many of us even if we may intellectually reject it. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sticking to my reading of your work as a  bit mythic (and this is not derogatory!).  The last painting with the crisp realistic tree by the fences, domestic, domesticated, familiar.  The glowing, more impressionistic butte? plateau? in the distance &#8212; reachable? perhaps; desirable? definitely.</p>
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		<title>By: June</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-37143</link>
		<dc:creator>June</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-37143</guid>
		<description>hmmm, Clairan, you would ask the impossible questions.

Mythic, I think, has to do with a generalization that a whole culture buys into. And places, as I use the term, are specific -- they have particular attributes that at best myths tend to blend with other attributes to make narratives. That's why I like the Gary Snyder quote: "Our relation to the natural world takes place in a place, and it must be grounded in information and experience."

So John Wayne's west says wide open spaces, big sky, big hearts, brave souls (and Men who are Men). My west (or I should say south eastern Oregon says sun screen and sun light, wind and intensity of concentration, rattlesnake stomping and annihilation of self awareness (for an hour or so). It could be that some of that "feeling" of mine is also mythic -- loss of the sense of self, for example, seems to go with the enormous skies. But even there, the enormous skies differ greatly depending upon which part of the west you are dealing with (and probably what the land under the sky is like). Kansas skies are dramatic, wild, fitful. Eastern Oregon's skies are cerulean blue or powder gray, not dramatic like Kansas.

Anyway, there's my answer and I'm sticking to it, today. We'll see what happens tomorrow. 

I have to go see what snarky things have been said about Steve's quotes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmm, Clairan, you would ask the impossible questions.</p>
<p>Mythic, I think, has to do with a generalization that a whole culture buys into. And places, as I use the term, are specific &#8212; they have particular attributes that at best myths tend to blend with other attributes to make narratives. That&#8217;s why I like the Gary Snyder quote: &#8220;Our relation to the natural world takes place in a place, and it must be grounded in information and experience.&#8221;</p>
<p>So John Wayne&#8217;s west says wide open spaces, big sky, big hearts, brave souls (and Men who are Men). My west (or I should say south eastern Oregon says sun screen and sun light, wind and intensity of concentration, rattlesnake stomping and annihilation of self awareness (for an hour or so). It could be that some of that &#8220;feeling&#8221; of mine is also mythic &#8212; loss of the sense of self, for example, seems to go with the enormous skies. But even there, the enormous skies differ greatly depending upon which part of the west you are dealing with (and probably what the land under the sky is like). Kansas skies are dramatic, wild, fitful. Eastern Oregon&#8217;s skies are cerulean blue or powder gray, not dramatic like Kansas.</p>
<p>Anyway, there&#8217;s my answer and I&#8217;m sticking to it, today. We&#8217;ll see what happens tomorrow. </p>
<p>I have to go see what snarky things have been said about Steve&#8217;s quotes.</p>
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		<title>By: Clairan</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-37140</link>
		<dc:creator>Clairan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 03:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-37140</guid>
		<description>June,

Places can be real and mythic at one and the same time, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>June,</p>
<p>Places can be real and mythic at one and the same time, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Tree</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-36903</link>
		<dc:creator>Tree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-36903</guid>
		<description>"Why channel an art historian and not the artist himself?"


Ouch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why channel an art historian and not the artist himself?&#8221;</p>
<p>Ouch.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-36886</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2007/09/on-landscape.html#comment-36886</guid>
		<description>Good morning all:

Birgit - did you really purchase Loran's book on our recommendations? - I ask eye-battingly. Good for you and good for him and his memory. Back when, at the museum, Roger Fry was the go-to on the subject of Cezanne. Erle Loran was seen as a member of that dirty hands set; art historians who go out with brush and trowel to unearth the facts. He even took photos of well heads and other stuff that appeared to be parts of C's grand motif. And his name didn't help as it seemed a little bumpkinny compared to a serene and austere moniker like "Roger Fry".

But I always liked Loran. I felt that he placed his attention more on the interval of Cezanne's work when the paint was still wet on the canvas and C was wearing essence of turpentine like a cologne.

June: perhaps I would ask for a refund from any instructor who deigned to demonstrate Cezanne's method. I don't think that C. had a "method" as such, but rather a pointed and moving end to his universe that assumed the shape of a brush when required. 

Yes, I would love to see you become involved  with buildings. Burchfield comes to mind in this context, but I am sure that you are about to generate a unique perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good morning all:</p>
<p>Birgit - did you really purchase Loran&#8217;s book on our recommendations? - I ask eye-battingly. Good for you and good for him and his memory. Back when, at the museum, Roger Fry was the go-to on the subject of Cezanne. Erle Loran was seen as a member of that dirty hands set; art historians who go out with brush and trowel to unearth the facts. He even took photos of well heads and other stuff that appeared to be parts of C&#8217;s grand motif. And his name didn&#8217;t help as it seemed a little bumpkinny compared to a serene and austere moniker like &#8220;Roger Fry&#8221;.</p>
<p>But I always liked Loran. I felt that he placed his attention more on the interval of Cezanne&#8217;s work when the paint was still wet on the canvas and C was wearing essence of turpentine like a cologne.</p>
<p>June: perhaps I would ask for a refund from any instructor who deigned to demonstrate Cezanne&#8217;s method. I don&#8217;t think that C. had a &#8220;method&#8221; as such, but rather a pointed and moving end to his universe that assumed the shape of a brush when required. </p>
<p>Yes, I would love to see you become involved  with buildings. Burchfield comes to mind in this context, but I am sure that you are about to generate a unique perspective.</p>
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