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	<title>Comments on: The Place of Story</title>
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	<description>a multi-disciplinary dialog</description>
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		<title>By: Melanie</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html/comment-page-1#comment-177700</link>
		<dc:creator>Melanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html#comment-177700</guid>
		<description>There is a kind of genius in being able to appeal to a mass audience -- and the kind of mass receipts that arise from that ability provoke a great deal of understandable envy. But as with other kinds of genius, the people blessed with this talent make it seem easier than it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a kind of genius in being able to appeal to a mass audience &#8212; and the kind of mass receipts that arise from that ability provoke a great deal of understandable envy. But as with other kinds of genius, the people blessed with this talent make it seem easier than it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Durbin</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html/comment-page-1#comment-177699</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Durbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html#comment-177699</guid>
		<description>Melanie,

I&#039;ll be interested to hear what you think if you find time to read the Wenders piece. I don&#039;t think he&#039;d deny that personal taste enters into his criticism.

To make your distinction requires addressing the contentious question of how to identify the &quot;demands of form and genre.&quot; Do box office receipts matter? If so, Wenders is in trouble. Critical discussion as an approach is more to my taste. :-) Obviously, my opinions are less grounded than authors&#039; or filmmakers&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melanie,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be interested to hear what you think if you find time to read the Wenders piece. I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;d deny that personal taste enters into his criticism.</p>
<p>To make your distinction requires addressing the contentious question of how to identify the &#8220;demands of form and genre.&#8221; Do box office receipts matter? If so, Wenders is in trouble. Critical discussion as an approach is more to my taste. :-) Obviously, my opinions are less grounded than authors&#8217; or filmmakers&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Melanie</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html/comment-page-1#comment-177680</link>
		<dc:creator>Melanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html#comment-177680</guid>
		<description>I could make a similar distinction about reflexive-disdain-posing-as-insight and genuine analysis. From your excerpts, Wenders seems to be conflating the demands of form and genre (an issue of craft) with the strictures of taste (his) and, seemingly, using his taste as a universal criterion of excellence. But I think I&#039;d better wait to have my computer back and follow the link before I go too far off into unsupported territory because of my own drumbeat concerns regarding issues of taste versus issues of craft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could make a similar distinction about reflexive-disdain-posing-as-insight and genuine analysis. From your excerpts, Wenders seems to be conflating the demands of form and genre (an issue of craft) with the strictures of taste (his) and, seemingly, using his taste as a universal criterion of excellence. But I think I&#8217;d better wait to have my computer back and follow the link before I go too far off into unsupported territory because of my own drumbeat concerns regarding issues of taste versus issues of craft.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Durbin</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html/comment-page-1#comment-177449</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Durbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 00:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html#comment-177449</guid>
		<description>melanie,

I like your distinction between plot and story. I think Wenders would agree. His complaint is that, in too many movies, what should be a story has been reduced to a sequence of events that might be exciting in themselves, but don&#039;t arise in a satisfying way from the (neglected) place and characters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>melanie,</p>
<p>I like your distinction between plot and story. I think Wenders would agree. His complaint is that, in too many movies, what should be a story has been reduced to a sequence of events that might be exciting in themselves, but don&#8217;t arise in a satisfying way from the (neglected) place and characters.</p>
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		<title>By: melanie</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html/comment-page-1#comment-177367</link>
		<dc:creator>melanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html#comment-177367</guid>
		<description>PS. I would, therefore, argue that Wenders is completely wrong when/if he defines story as events. Events, especially the kind of &quot;spectacular action effects&quot; he rightfully bemoans, are plot, not story. 

There&#039;s an old writing-teacher chestnut about the difference between plot and story: A plot is &quot;the king died, then the queen died,&quot; but a story is &quot;the king died, then queen died of grief.&quot; The distinction being the ongoing, unfolding, and (one hopes) compelling explication of the emotional/intellectual significance of the action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS. I would, therefore, argue that Wenders is completely wrong when/if he defines story as events. Events, especially the kind of &#8220;spectacular action effects&#8221; he rightfully bemoans, are plot, not story. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s an old writing-teacher chestnut about the difference between plot and story: A plot is &#8220;the king died, then the queen died,&#8221; but a story is &#8220;the king died, then queen died of grief.&#8221; The distinction being the ongoing, unfolding, and (one hopes) compelling explication of the emotional/intellectual significance of the action.</p>
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		<title>By: melanie</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html/comment-page-1#comment-177350</link>
		<dc:creator>melanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html#comment-177350</guid>
		<description>&quot;When we think of story we think first (at least I do) of short stories or novels&quot;

Story is a way of ordering experience so that it &quot;makes sense&quot; -- intellectual and emotional sense as well as &quot;of the senses&quot; sense. At its best, it&#039;s not a short-circuiting of experience and impressions, but rather a refined and prolonged re-experiencing of them, often, but not always, crafted so that the experience and impressions can be shared with others. In a way, it is a form of abstraction in which the appealing details (humor, drama, perplexity) take prominence and the less appealing details fall away. 

My apologies, btw, for being out of touch. I had a big, happy, self-imposed deadline looming (and met) and, in an unrelated incident, my computer had to go out to be de-virused, and -- why not? -- the bathroom ceiling fell in around the same time. I&#039;m sneaking in some time at the work computer but will respond more thoughtfully  to the MD comments as soon as I can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When we think of story we think first (at least I do) of short stories or novels&#8221;</p>
<p>Story is a way of ordering experience so that it &#8220;makes sense&#8221; &#8212; intellectual and emotional sense as well as &#8220;of the senses&#8221; sense. At its best, it&#8217;s not a short-circuiting of experience and impressions, but rather a refined and prolonged re-experiencing of them, often, but not always, crafted so that the experience and impressions can be shared with others. In a way, it is a form of abstraction in which the appealing details (humor, drama, perplexity) take prominence and the less appealing details fall away. </p>
<p>My apologies, btw, for being out of touch. I had a big, happy, self-imposed deadline looming (and met) and, in an unrelated incident, my computer had to go out to be de-virused, and &#8212; why not? &#8212; the bathroom ceiling fell in around the same time. I&#8217;m sneaking in some time at the work computer but will respond more thoughtfully  to the MD comments as soon as I can.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Durbin</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html/comment-page-1#comment-177225</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Durbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artandperception.com/2008/08/the-place-of-story.html#comment-177225</guid>
		<description>D.,

If you want more of my story, a similar deer encounter was briefly described &lt;a href=&quot;http://stephendurbin.com/sourdough-trail/2008/08/15/examined/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;elsewhere&lt;/a&gt;. Here, I&#039;m principally interested in how the image alone speaks to us. My deer was a recent example at hand, but much better story-telling/generating images for most people would be those of Larry Sultan you introduced us to in a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.artandperception.com/2007/03/art-competes-with-life-by-d.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;previous post&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D.,</p>
<p>If you want more of my story, a similar deer encounter was briefly described <a href="http://stephendurbin.com/sourdough-trail/2008/08/15/examined/" rel="nofollow">elsewhere</a>. Here, I&#8217;m principally interested in how the image alone speaks to us. My deer was a recent example at hand, but much better story-telling/generating images for most people would be those of Larry Sultan you introduced us to in a <a href="http://www.artandperception.com/2007/03/art-competes-with-life-by-d.html" rel="nofollow">previous post</a>.</p>
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