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	<title>Comments on: Mind, Body and Soul &#8211;  ancient concerns</title>
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	<link>http://artandperception.com/2009/01/mind-body-and-soul-ancient-concerns.html</link>
	<description>a multi-disciplinary dialog</description>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2009/01/mind-body-and-soul-ancient-concerns.html/comment-page-1#comment-199185</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artandperception.com/?p=3183#comment-199185</guid>
		<description>Folks:

I have a mind to raid the fridge. &quot;My&quot; elbow, &quot;my&quot; knee, &quot;my&quot; perception, &quot;my&quot; propensity... it&#039;s like there is a possessor-in-keeping of all aspects of this being. Semantics? Maybe: but there are so many ways to be self-referential without invoking a possessive. Thoroughgoing agnostic as I am, I can still entertain the notion that the overall franchise that comprises this writer takes up a lot more room than my given cubic meter, and the center of identity lies elsewhere. All this while awaiting news that the &quot;sense of self&quot; has been has been successfully and reproducibly identified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks:</p>
<p>I have a mind to raid the fridge. &#8220;My&#8221; elbow, &#8220;my&#8221; knee, &#8220;my&#8221; perception, &#8220;my&#8221; propensity&#8230; it&#8217;s like there is a possessor-in-keeping of all aspects of this being. Semantics? Maybe: but there are so many ways to be self-referential without invoking a possessive. Thoroughgoing agnostic as I am, I can still entertain the notion that the overall franchise that comprises this writer takes up a lot more room than my given cubic meter, and the center of identity lies elsewhere. All this while awaiting news that the &#8220;sense of self&#8221; has been has been successfully and reproducibly identified.</p>
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		<title>By: June</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2009/01/mind-body-and-soul-ancient-concerns.html/comment-page-1#comment-199004</link>
		<dc:creator>June</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artandperception.com/?p=3183#comment-199004</guid>
		<description>Steve,

&quot;Emworlded&quot; -- yes!

In the series I&#039;ve been doing on my old home grounds, from photographs of the territory, I&#039;ve been reintroduced to emotions and visions that I never had language for before -- that is, visual language, paint that could approximate something of the feelings I had for what I saw. As a child, I simply had no exposure to visual knowledge, other than what I made up. Music, yes, poetry, yes, but we had no (visual) art books, no (visual) art lessons, no art interest available, either in the family or in school. So to see the world of my childhood, now that I have such tools as viridian and burnt umber, available to me is something miraculous. 

This doesn&#039;t deny your point about spoken language, by the way; I spent enough time gazing, trying to understand, to comprehend, to fix, those views of Pine Creek and the mists/greens/waters that the visions remained with me all these years and were only recently unlocked by the tools. So I was &quot;emworlded&quot; so strongly that 60 years later, the world I was immersed in still glows in my brain/mind/body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>&#8220;Emworlded&#8221; &#8212; yes!</p>
<p>In the series I&#8217;ve been doing on my old home grounds, from photographs of the territory, I&#8217;ve been reintroduced to emotions and visions that I never had language for before &#8212; that is, visual language, paint that could approximate something of the feelings I had for what I saw. As a child, I simply had no exposure to visual knowledge, other than what I made up. Music, yes, poetry, yes, but we had no (visual) art books, no (visual) art lessons, no art interest available, either in the family or in school. So to see the world of my childhood, now that I have such tools as viridian and burnt umber, available to me is something miraculous. </p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t deny your point about spoken language, by the way; I spent enough time gazing, trying to understand, to comprehend, to fix, those views of Pine Creek and the mists/greens/waters that the visions remained with me all these years and were only recently unlocked by the tools. So I was &#8220;emworlded&#8221; so strongly that 60 years later, the world I was immersed in still glows in my brain/mind/body.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Durbin</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2009/01/mind-body-and-soul-ancient-concerns.html/comment-page-1#comment-198964</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Durbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 05:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artandperception.com/?p=3183#comment-198964</guid>
		<description>June, your holism goes only half-way. I believe the mind is not only embodied--the body is inextricably tied to our cognition--it is also &quot;emworlded,&quot; by which I mean that the nature of the world (as known through the senses) plays an essential role in brain development. This is very well-established in the area of visual perception, and less well but convincingly in the area of language learning. If not exposed to spoken language in the first six years or so while the brain is approaching maturity, humans are incapable of learning it later. Mind/brain, software/computer, language/words, music/tones...what creation is without a vehicle, a medium?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>June, your holism goes only half-way. I believe the mind is not only embodied&#8211;the body is inextricably tied to our cognition&#8211;it is also &#8220;emworlded,&#8221; by which I mean that the nature of the world (as known through the senses) plays an essential role in brain development. This is very well-established in the area of visual perception, and less well but convincingly in the area of language learning. If not exposed to spoken language in the first six years or so while the brain is approaching maturity, humans are incapable of learning it later. Mind/brain, software/computer, language/words, music/tones&#8230;what creation is without a vehicle, a medium?</p>
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		<title>By: Birgit Zipser</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2009/01/mind-body-and-soul-ancient-concerns.html/comment-page-1#comment-197635</link>
		<dc:creator>Birgit Zipser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artandperception.com/?p=3183#comment-197635</guid>
		<description>Jay,

I don&#039;t know about getting endorphin release from lying on a beach in Florida.  In snowy Michigan, I am more likely to experience it while cross country skiing. 

About computers, ask Steve, our artificial intelligence expert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about getting endorphin release from lying on a beach in Florida.  In snowy Michigan, I am more likely to experience it while cross country skiing. </p>
<p>About computers, ask Steve, our artificial intelligence expert.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2009/01/mind-body-and-soul-ancient-concerns.html/comment-page-1#comment-197624</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artandperception.com/?p=3183#comment-197624</guid>
		<description>Birgit:

Are peptides analogous in some oceanic sense to the long-sought fountain of youth? I can imagine elders crowding the beaches of Florida and elsewhere, the better to bathe in the rejuvenating pep tides.

What would be your take on the relationship between a computer and a computer program? 

Rudolph Steiner was no help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Birgit:</p>
<p>Are peptides analogous in some oceanic sense to the long-sought fountain of youth? I can imagine elders crowding the beaches of Florida and elsewhere, the better to bathe in the rejuvenating pep tides.</p>
<p>What would be your take on the relationship between a computer and a computer program? </p>
<p>Rudolph Steiner was no help.</p>
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		<title>By: Birgit Zipser</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2009/01/mind-body-and-soul-ancient-concerns.html/comment-page-1#comment-197538</link>
		<dc:creator>Birgit Zipser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artandperception.com/?p=3183#comment-197538</guid>
		<description>June,

I, too, lean towards the idea that brain/mind/body are intertwined, having spent a sabbatical in Candace Pert’s NIH lab,  where, a long time ago, I studied ‘Molecules of Emotion’ in the limbic system of the brain and learned that immune cells respond to the same peptides. 

Supposedly, Rene Descartes’ notion that animals are simply machines without feelings led to animal vivisections without killing their pain with anesthetics. As I understand, from reading secondary sources, Darwin rectified this way of thinking by telling 19th century people that both humans and animals have emotions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>June,</p>
<p>I, too, lean towards the idea that brain/mind/body are intertwined, having spent a sabbatical in Candace Pert’s NIH lab,  where, a long time ago, I studied ‘Molecules of Emotion’ in the limbic system of the brain and learned that immune cells respond to the same peptides. </p>
<p>Supposedly, Rene Descartes’ notion that animals are simply machines without feelings led to animal vivisections without killing their pain with anesthetics. As I understand, from reading secondary sources, Darwin rectified this way of thinking by telling 19th century people that both humans and animals have emotions.</p>
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		<title>By: June</title>
		<link>http://artandperception.com/2009/01/mind-body-and-soul-ancient-concerns.html/comment-page-1#comment-197529</link>
		<dc:creator>June</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artandperception.com/?p=3183#comment-197529</guid>
		<description>Oh, and what are those 1872/Darwin thoughts on Emotions in Man and Animals? I&#039;m not familiar with those particular ideas.

 And how foolish of Darwin not to include Man (women, too!) as one of the Animals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and what are those 1872/Darwin thoughts on Emotions in Man and Animals? I&#8217;m not familiar with those particular ideas.</p>
<p> And how foolish of Darwin not to include Man (women, too!) as one of the Animals.</p>
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