Possible points of interest in posts and comments:
(1) Information on artistic methods applicable to several disciplines
(2) Practical aspects – framing pictures, book keeping, time keeping
(3) Creative process in art
(4) Art history
(5) Other interests
Please feel free to criticize and add other interests. We can continue discussing them in future.
I am interested in motion in a 3-dimensional context (5). My photograph barely captures the sharp drop-off to the lake and there is no motion to speak of. How can this landscape be imaged in a more interesting way? Would it help to change the medium?
Excellent examples of motion in a 3-D context are illustrated in two posts and addressed in one comment on A&P. For example, the left aspect of Angela Ferreira’s painting Fado shows a street gliding rapidly away.
Colin Jago’s photographs of Allium aflatunense combine sharp and soft focus and thereby evoke simple or more more complex motions.
I was struck by the quote in D.’s comment #11.2
You see how de Kooning’s using a landscape metaphor, blurring the back edge of the bowl to make it look distant, even though it actually would have been as clear to him as the front edge?’’ he asks. This is a little hard to discern, but Mr. Thiebaud has a point to make: ‘’I don’t agree with Duchamp that the eye is a dumb organ. Duchamp talked about the eye of the mind. I think the eye has a mind of its own, and there are different ways we see: there’s peripheral vision, the myopic up-close sensation, focused seeing. And the more ways you can put together in a picture, as de Kooning does here, the richer it becomes, the more like life.
D.’s quote reminded me of a large painting by de Kooning illustrating motion along a mountainside. I saw it in the Met in the nineties.
Remember Walter Bartman saying Three dimension as an illusion in painting has been it’s “Holy Grail…
What interests you?
Birgit,
You’ve given us at least triplets here! All interesting questions. Since David is not up yet I’ll have a crack at listing them out.
Question A. What are favorite posts, comments, and topics on A&P?
Great question, but not easy to answer for several reasons. One problem I’ve had with the site is navigation. Search seem very hit or miss. Perhaps we need categories for contributors names so that we can easily find Birgit’s posts, for example. It would also be nice if we could search posts or comments separately–often the topics are completely different!
I like posts in all your categories. In category 5 I count “getting to know each other.” This is important for getting a sense of where people are coming from in their comments. I also hope that sometime I’ll be able to meet up with some of you if I travel to your city, or you come by Montana.
Question B. How do you give an impression of 3-D movement in a 2-D artwork?
You might need to clarify whether I’m interpreting you correctly here. In Fado and your photo there is no over motion depicted, though the eye/mind viewing the image certainly moves over it based on elements in the image like the street you mention. Is this what you’re talking about in your photo? Or did you mean how to show wave motion? Assuming the first, you do have a very strong diagonal line of the hillside and a strong horizon line. I think the eye is naturally drawn to their intersection, then follows the horizon to the right (also farther distance). There it may reverse, or cross back over the water, which spans the full depth of the space depicted, but is pretty flat, with little detail to draw or guide the eye. There is an interesting sense of depth in your picture because the triangular foreground is not continuous with the background, but cut off by the side of the hill. There might be a greater ease of movement into depth if we saw the connecting shoreline, but that standard composition could well be less interesting. You could bring the foreground farther forward by emphasizing its warm colors vs. the blue background.
I’ve thrown a bunch of possibly useful comments out without even mentioning the figure so far. It’s underexposed but could probably be brought out with processing. The composition is unconventional with it so far left, but I like how this emphasizes the expanse to the right where the person is looking (this would be stronger if we could see enough eye detail to be sure of the gaze direction). I also like the accidental “C” shape formed with the middle coast in the distance. I don’t know how helpful this is to you, but these are things I notice and think about looking at your picture.
Question C. How do the various properties of visual perception and our habits and ways of seeing influence our understanding of an artwork?
Also a great question, and one I understood, from the title, that Art and Perception was especially about. Obviously a huge topic and maybe you just mean the small part about the artistic technique of blurring the far side of the bowl. An analogous observation would perhaps be deliberately taking advantage of the typical atmospheric perspective in landscapes (blue in the distance) to bring the hillside forward by reddening it. This kind of color play is well known to painters.
Enough from me, already (for now, anyway)…
Steve,
You have found a weakness/strength of mine. I think associatively rather than linearly.
A. Someday, I would love to hike again in Montana. Or you may come to the Sleeping Bear Dunes or NYC?
B. Your first interpretation is what meant: ..though the eye/mind viewing the image certainly moves over it based on elements in the image like the street..
Thanks for the tip: You could bring the foreground farther forward by emphasizing its warm colors vs. the blue background.
Re: ..this would be stronger if we could see enough eye detail to be sure of the gaze direction.. The picture was underexposed, it was still done in jpg (not raw file format) on a not so very sunny day. My sister was day-dreaming, not really looking anywhere. After I had taken the picture, she immediately stood up,embarrassed, that I had caught her unaware.
C. How do the various properties of visual perception and our habits and ways of seeing influence our understanding of an artwork? Also a great question, and one I understood, from the title, that Art and Perception was especially about.
This needs to become a separate point on the list or (1) has to be rewritten. I will think about it.
Thank you for analyzing the elements of the picture for me. This is only the second time (the first was also on A&P) that I have been helped that way.
Steve, thanks! I could never have done that at 5:00am :)
Question A: I like Steve’s idea.
Perhaps we need categories for contributors names so that we can easily find Birgit’s posts, for example.
I tend to be more interested in artistic process than most other things (creative process, not so much the technique). Also, and I probably shouldn’t admit this, it’s kind of fun when Karl makes some outrageous comment and I get to give him a hard time about it.
Question B: This is going to sound silly, Birgit, and I’m not a photographer, but how about shooting this at a slow shuuter speed and moving the camera around? Then it would feel like the photographer was sliding down the hill.
Question C: This morning at Starbucks they were out of Awake tea, and I had to settle for China Green Tips. My brain is too sleepy to think analytically.
There is an archive by author – it’s just hard to get to.
Here’s how to get to it:
1) from any post click on the clickable link for the category of that post (for this post it is currently “uncategorized” – click that link.
2) you are now on what is known as an archive page and the side bar is different.
3) Look at the very bottom of the sidebar – there is a grouping called “author” – we are all listed here and if you click one of these links you will get an archive of that author’s posts.
My answer for a) is that I like a variety of posts and if I’m not in the mood to read one I skip it and can come back another day. I would like to keep as much variety as possible on A&P and would hate to see the types of allowed posts to in some way be restricted. So yes to all categories listed plus anything else someone wants to post on.
I’m too tired after shoveling a bazillion tons of snow to even think about b or c right now.
Oops – I was also going to mention that if you do click on a category from a post that you will see all posts within that category when you get to the archive page.
I have yet to find a place in the sidebar where all categories are listed out but I might have missed something – Rex?
Birgit —
First, thanks for the run-down on what kinds of contributions have been made to A&P. I have been thinking about the site as a putative contributor, so having that list is very useful.
Second, I’m not a photographer (although I do take many photographs), but as a painter, I would say that your photo is so beautifully balanced, with all the elements that Steve mentions — the horizon line and distant landforms, the balancing of the very still figure on the left with the sense of space on the right, even the smoothly linear diagonal and horizon — all those things make it restful rather than energetic. It’s like the classical Madonnas which evoke harmony because of their over-all design.
If I were painting this, and wanted it to have a greater sense of emerging energy, I would make the figure more focused on the pull of gravity — dug into the slope more deeply, perhaps with a hand to help the balance and so forth. Nothing too great, just enough to make the viewer aware that the figure isn’t quite totally sure of maintaining her posture as it is. To further energize the scene (even without adding the gravity pull) I would add motion to the water, and emphasize the distant clouds, bringing them closer to the viewer (probably through working the hues) and making their turmoil more obvious. I might even make the slope edge rougher, rather than having it be that nice smooth diagonal. In other words, I’d rough up the paint and the image to evoke energy rather than a kind of dreaminess. Either way works as a design; it would totally depend on what you were aiming for.
Now how you do that in the medium of photography, given that you already have the basic elements set,is for others to advise.
As for the “eye of the mind” — well, that is a whole dissertation on its own. I’m reminded of Hockney’s photographic collages, where he alters the viewpoint ever so slightly and does panoramic views that he collages together. “Pearblossom Highway” is the one that I know best — David Hockney
Birgit,
I’m not sure that it is the focus per se that is creating the motion in the Allium pictures. Many in the series have curved lines leading away from the viewer. Shapes that we associate with speed and movement. The fact that only one end of the line is in focus enhances the impression.
You can imagine that there was absolutely no motion in reality. Even breathing near the plants changed the point of focus. The camera was fired using infrared to minimise observer interference.
To answer your questions about the picture with the bare hillside and the lake. I don’t think landscape images are strongly dependent upon medium. Sure, a watercolour, or whatever, would look different, but each medium would be capable of a rendering of the place that satisfied you.
As to “interesting” I would ask you what you mean by interesting. The existing photo is a document of a time and place which is a valid an interest as any other. If by interesting you mean dramatic, then some options would come to mind, whereas if by interesting you mean beautiful, or representative, or illusionary or…. other options would come to mind.
If I have understood the landscape that you have documented at all well, I think that I might be tempted to look down the slope and into the water. Or across the slope, as you have done, but with even less in the background. The slope and the colour seem to me to be the distinctive elements so I would work on those.
And on to your list of topics…..the more types the better. The more posts the better. The more art the better.
[on search – my experience is that the WordPress search box is next to useless.]
[on author archives – there is a WordPress function to call these I believe. Even if we don’t want this in the sidebar, there could be a page dedicated to different ways of viewing the archives]
June, thanks a million. I will look at the Sleeping Bear Dunes with your eyes and explore new possibilities. I am really grateful for your artistic input. I will print it out to think more about it.
Colin,
Thank your for your clarification Many in the series have curved lines leading away from the viewer. Shapes that we associate with speed and movement. The fact that only one end of the line is in focus enhances the impression.
I also appreciate your advice as to how to direct the camera. Looking down the slope into the water will be pretty scary. I would be standing on loose sand on a precipice. But there are some dead tree near the edge (the area is called ghost forest) that perhaps I could support myself on.
I will also try shooting across the slope as you suggested.
I am fascinated by the landscape and I appreciate all advice of how to interpret it further.
My ‘interesting’ was a poor way of asking. Nevertheless, I have obtained the advice that I sought.
Thank you for your comments, Steve, David, Lisa, June and Colin.
I thought it was fun to figure out some categories in case someone wants to write a book on the information on A&P. I agree, the more topics and the more art, the better
A. I have revised my list according to your suggestions
1) Art and Perception: various properties of visual perception and our habits of seeing influence our understanding of artwork.
2) Creative artistic process
3) Practical aspects – framing pictures, book keeping, time keeping
4) Individual interests to get to know one another
5) Would outrageous comments fall under bantering?
6) Effect of the internet on children’s visual perception
B. We need improvements on how to search the site. For example, the topics in a given post and its respective comments may be different. The search box is not very useful.
Lisa explained how to find authors’ posts.
(1) ) from any post click on the clickable link for the category of that post (for this post it is currently “uncategorized” – click that link.
(2) you are now on what is known as an archive page and the side bar is different.
(3) Look at the very bottom of the sidebar – there is a grouping called “author” – we are all listed here and if you click one of these links you will get an archive of that author’s posts.